Often, our only perception of an artist is the work he creates. As such, chances are you wouldn’t recognize Norm Breyfogle on the street— it’s fitting, in a way, considering the character with which he is most often associated.

Norm drew Batman for DC Comics for six years, from 1987 until 1993. This was a renaissance period for the character, and Breyfogle’s vision of Batman wasn’t quite like any before him— Breyfogle’s Batman was sleek, expressive and sinister, and he was the first artist that seemed truly conscious of the transformation that took place when Bruce Wayne put on that suit: under Norm’s hand, Batman didn’t use the idea of terror so much as he became it. His work was rejuvenating to the character, updating the myth for a more sophisticated age and giving it a cinematic flair; moreover, he rediscovered the raw essence of Batman on the page, what made the character more than just a man in a suit. He made the character into something truly elemental. Something cool.

During this time Norm also co-created the provocative character of Anarky with writer Alan Grant. The character was complex: a teenage vigilante with violently populist leanings. Anarky clashed with Batman for a time before going on to star in a well-received spin-off series of his own, followed by a short-lived solo series in the late nineties. Ever since, the character seems to have been expunged from the DC Universe, much to the confusion of its creators and dismay of fans.

Norm has put his stamp on numerous other characters over his career— Captain America. The Flash. The Spectre. Superman. Prime. And his original creation, Metaphysique. He’s done work on Of Bitter Souls for Speakeasy Comics and the recent The Danger’s Dozen for A First Salvo. He’s also working on a novel.

At its best, the work an artist creates is sometimes absorbed subconsciously into the fabric of culture, even though the artist himself often remains in the shadows. In many ways comic books are the best example of that phenomenon— they are the most communal of our art forms; a pop-culture mythology shaped by many hands. It may be difficult to keep up with the constantly fluctuating universe of comic book characters and their storylines over time, but the opposite is true of the touchstones of the genre: the more time that passes, the easier it is to identify the moments when we were stirred. Breyfogle’s Batman is essential, and his work today continues to inspire. We are pleased he could spare us the time of answering a few questions.

Please visit www.normbreyfogle.com for news, galleries, and a virtual store where you can order trade paperbacks, sketchbooks and original artwork.

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You started drawing at an early age, when money wasn’t in the equation. One of the most prevalent fears of creative people is that turning your passion into a profession will suck the life right out of it. When you first made the jump into comics, did the professional aspects of the position (such as working under deadlines and adhering to the structure of someone else’s a narrative) alter the experience of creating art? Did it become just a job, or did you manage to keep it fresh and fun?

It’s always been a job, yet fun at the same time. The first two years were the hardest, when I was drawing Whisper under deadline for First Comcs, but once I got into the routine and internalised a lot of the reference it got more managable. I always knew even as a child and as an amateur that it was going to be a lot of work, but it was work of which I felt proud.

I’d counted on comics, and they came through for me. I did instead hope it was going to be a lifetime vocation, though. (lol) And I guess it may still be so for me, although things have changed. I certainly can’t count on Marvel or DC to hire me anymore, and don’t ask me why; it’s a puzzlement.

Tell us about your first days at DC. Do you remember seeing the first issue of Detective Comics that bore your name? Was it a thrill, seeing your stamp on such an iconic character?

Was that first issue the one with the Crime Doctor at center stage (I’m not sure)? I cringe when I see it now, but yeah, it was a huge thrill at the time. A life-long dream come true.

On your website there’s a gallery of your amateur work. Your boyhood drawings of Batman are skillful, but traditional— he’s clearly a man in a suit. Later in that gallery, there’s an ink drawing of Batman you did at age eighteen that shows how you were approaching the character differently: here, Batman’s taking on some of those abstract qualities found later in your work on the Batman titles, like the use of stylized shadow and the use of his cape to create atmosphere. As your work progressed throughout the comics, the cape became almost wraithlike, and your vision of Batman occasionally bordered on demonic. Is this early drawing where you started to experiment with what eventually became your very distinct and stylized take on the character? Was it a conscious decision to take the design of Batman in this direction, or was it sort of an organic change?

I don’t know if that particular drawing I did at eighteen is the actual beginning of anything, but I do remember it being kind of a revelation to me at the time. (Of course, that’s one of the reasons I’ve still kept it at the top of my amateur porfolio. I have many notebooks of stuff I did at various ages showing a progression in my ability. In any particular selection, of course, I choose the stand-outs.)

Many of your most striking covers from this period are actually the simplest; my personal favorite is the cover of Detective Comics #590. From looking at the cover, we don’t know who the villain is, and we don’t know what the story is about— but the framing, choice of perspective, atmosphere and color make this one a classic for me. This cover seems like an oddity for the medium; it’s rather quiet and reserved. How did you approach the matter of designing covers? Were you required to include certain elements depending on the story, or did you pretty much do whatever you wanted? Do any favorites come to mind?

For the Tec 590 cover I guess I was influenced by the gothic look of London. Big Ben provides its own mood.

I undoubtedly drew many cover sketches for that issue’s cover, but I threw away all my Batman and Detective prelims when I was forced to sell my house, move and downsize after suddenly being rejected by Marvel and DC Comics in 2001, after about fifteen years of steady work for DC in the comics business.

When designing covers I attempt to summarize the contents of the story in some way without spoiling it. Some of my faves include that Tec 590 cover you mentioned, Tec 587, Tec 591, and Tec 592 I’m also especially proud of the cover painting for the hardcover graphic novel Batman: Birth of the Demon.

In comic book titles, the landscape is constantly changing: artists, writers, story arcs, and sometimes even continuity. Occasionally entire universes of characters— decades of history— are rebooted. Is it challenging to remain faithful to canon working in that fluctuating universe, or does it instead give you a certain freedom to re-imagine things at your whim, as in your ever-changing Batmobile designs? Any characters besides Batman you were excited to put your own spin on? Any visual changes you made to the characters or environments that you were especially pleased with?

I’ve always made an effort to become thoroughly aware of the details of the characters I draw. Some titles and stories are more difficult to manage in this sense. For instance, team books are harder because there’s so much more to keep in mind for each and every page.

I would assume that I put my personal stamp on every character I draw, as does every artist. I liked drawing Robin dark and menacing rather than as a smiling elf, I liked designing various batmobiles before editorial reined in on the Batman canon details after the first films were released. I designed the look of many Batman characters largely because Alan Grant wasn’t using the old stand-bys but was creating new ones. The Flash was top fun for me in the titles in which I drew that character; I’d like to draw him a whole lot more.

Btw, Batman and DC stuff has only been about one-fourth to one-third of my output throughout my comics career. I’ve designed many characters for other companies, such as Prime and all his nemeses (Malibu Comics), the stuff in Of Bitter Souls, some things in Black Tide (for Angel Gate Press), and The Danger’s Dozen, to cite just a few examples. And, of course, there was the mini-series Metaphysique, which I created, wrote, designed, pencilled, inked, and for which I painted all the covers.

You worked on the launch of a new Batman title, Shadow of the Bat, which presented stories with a more psychological focus. Was this handed down to you, or something you and/or Alan Grant had asked to do? Did you approach the art in the new title any differently than you did the other Batman titles, or was it simply business as usual?

At a Batman summit conference Alan and I were offered a new Batman title by Denny O’Neil (I don’t think anyone had a title for it yet, at that point). Alan didn’t want to accept the offer, but I was willing to draw whatever DC wanted me to draw so I said yes, and Alan finally agreed to write it. I found out later that Alan balked at the offer because he knew that a very special anniversary issue of Batman was coming up (issue 500, I think, or was it 400?) and he knew it’d be big seller. Well, it was indeed a big success and we didn’t get those royalties because we were instead working on SOTB by then which, although it was also a success, wasn’t nearly as high-selling as was that one single anniversary issue of Batman.

The only thing I recall doing differently for SOTB was being able to play around with full bleed pages (where the artwork could go all the way to the edge of the page). Other than that, it was pretty much the same for me.

That was also the time that Batman comics started using elements of the movies in their designs, so that was a little different, too.

Concerning Batman in film, you’ve mentioned you weren’t too crazy about Tim Burton’s take on Batman due to some unrealistic set choices, callous violence on Batman’s part, and locales that felt somewhat otherworldly. Joel Schumacher’s Batman descended into misguided spectacle. How do you feel about Christopher Nolan’s take on the franchise with Batman Begins, and now The Dark Knight?

Yes, there were many bad decisions made in the first film which apparently became instant canon for the later films, but Nolan’s version is correcting much of that. I find it amazing that it took Hollywood nineteen years to realize how stupid it is for Batman to be unable to turn his freaking head! At this rate of improvement, maybe there’ll be a perfect Batman film by the time I retire. (lol)

Batman Begins wasn’t perfect. The idea that Bruce Wayne didn’t get his head straight until he was already an adult destroys one of the most important elements of the character, i.e., that he knew what he wanted to do with his life shortly after his parents were killed and he then spent well over a decade training his body and his mind to be preternaturally skillful. In the Nolan version, Batman is clearly no top scientist; he has to rely on Lucius Fox to explain relatively simple things like the Scarecrow’s nerve toxin! Nolan depicts Wayne as an unfocussed, angry young man all the way to adulthood, until Ras Al Ghul gets a hold of him. That’s not really Batman as he should be, imo.

My personally favorite Batman put to film so far can be seen in the short fan film titled Batman: Dead End.

Lots of superheroes go through changes over the years, but Batman seems to be a particularly susceptible target— he started off as brooding and violent; he lightened up after the Comics Code Authority was established in the 50s; the 60s saw him become campy; and the 70s brought some of the darkness back to the character. Still, sales dwindled until Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns in the mid 80s, after which you arrived on the scene. Which Batman were you most in touch with growing up? Why do you think Batman survived so many permutations, and came back so strong?

To me, Batman’s costume always guaranteed a certain aura of dark coolness, at least in the comics. As a child, I was reading Batman comics in the campy ‘60s and yet I still saw the same dark coolness factor. Of course, I was a young kid, and pop culture – and comics – was brighter and less sophisticated back then.

The reason Batman remains Batman even after all the changes is because his fundamental motivation is so simple and traumatic, and, having no superpowers, his fans can identify with him more easily than with some other characters. Also, Batman straddles a number of different genres with lithe grace, including detective, superhero, sci-fi, pulp, horror, and many others. Perhaps inevitably, such a very wide range of application is going to appeal to a wide range of many differing types of people.

I know it sounds shallow and kind of stupid, but I also think that a huge part of Batman’s fame has always been his costume. This is one reason he’s so difficult to depict well on film. For instance, in drawings and animation his cape can become almost alive and expand to dynamic proportions which – if seen in live action – could easily appear silly. And his cowl in the comics often seems alive, showing his facial expressions right through it, while in the films it’s become a solid helmet.

Superhero movies are certainly nothing new, but it seems like we’re getting a concentrated dose of them in recent years. Recent films like Sin City, Spiderman, Iron Man, and the new Batman films have made tons of money, stayed true to the source material, and received positive reviews on top of it— a surprising trifecta. Do you think we’re in the golden age of superhero movies? Why do you think the public is so hungry for these stories?

We’re obviously in the midst of the first really big and successful era for such movies, but I believe the future will hold even more glorious times.

People are going for this stuff strongly now because the storytelling, sfx, acting, directing, and everything else is finally being applied to this genre at a cutting-edge level of professionalism. Also, as the real world continues to darken, so do many folks enjoy high levels of exciting escapism.

Ultimately, I think the coming of age of CGI sfx is the main element that has pushed superheroes onto center stage in film. Never before could such activities be shown as realistically on screen as they can be now.

You’ve made comments in the past that you thought the character of Anarky was possibly too provocative for a post 9/11 climate. But years have passed, and with the success of the film version of V for Vendetta, and in light of some of the more complex themes in The Dark Knight, it would seem there is a mainstream audience for stories that challenge our perceptions of what it means to be a hero (and villain). I realize the character’s fate is not up to you, but do you still think Anarky is too heady and subversive, or was he simply too hot to handle for a mainstream publisher?

I think maybe so, but the truth must be very complex. I would hope that most folks would’ve noticed by now that there’s been a heck of a lot of propaganda control since 9-11. The “free press” has become a bullhorn for the special interests of the ruling elite, at most others’ expense. Thinking in a sophisticated manner is one thing, but when such thinking starts to challenge the political status quo, that’s when the censorship really hits the fan.

Who knows? Anarky may be the main reason Alan Grant and I are now persona non grata at DC (and even at Marvel).

You left DC to work for Malibu on the title Prime in exchange for the publishing of your creation, Metaphysique. It was an ambitious project, and the run was abbreviated due to market woes, but obviously the lure of being able to build your own universe was powerful. Have you always wanted to create your own characters? What did you take from the Metaphysique experience?

As a child I read voraciously but I never wanted to be a writer, probably because I got side-tracked very early by my interest in visual art. By the time I made the deal with Malibu I’d only written a small number of short prose and comics stories, (some of those stories were published by Eclipse Comics in the original version of Metaphysique), but after seeing what the Image guys were writing, I knew I could provide a story with a bit more depth because my long-time interest in reading fiction, philosophy, and psychology motivated me with a lot to say.

The main thing I gained from Metaphysique was confidence in my ability to write an epic story if I so desired.

During a time when work was scarce in comics, you started writing a novel to blow off some creative steam; you’ve since expressed some interest in turning that novel, once finished, into a comic book. Your panel layout and sense of pace in comics is so dynamic— how has it been stepping from that into a world without pictures?

I was a big reader from childhood on, and my highest scores on my college level entrance exams were in English, so I suppose writing came to me more easily than it might have otherwise. But still, the first efforts with my novel were like kicking a bird out of its nest in order to make it fly. Not only was I demoralized because of my rejection by the mainstream comics companies, but writing a novel is a much bigger effort than I realised at the time. The first three chapters were exceedingly difficult for me, even though I knew basically where I wanted to be by the beginning of chapter four or so. And it was only after chapter three that I decided to plot out the rest of the book.

Now I enjoy writing so very much that I wish I could concentrate only on that. But I can’t; I’ll still have to pay my bills through my illustrations for at least a while to come. Soon, though, I’ll be able to finish my novel. I have no idea if I’ll be able to sell it, though.

Prose writing provides the communicative tools for expressing profoundly complex depth to a degree that movies and even comics just can’t match.

On your website there’s the option to order commissions, though you are not accepting any at this time. Any idea when commissions will again be available? How do commissions work— do you work with only certain characters, or could you do, say, Popeye vs. Galactus (not that you should)?

I should be accepting new commissions by the end of September 2008, and I’ll draw anything a client requests, within reason (no pornography or major dissing of any established characters). I’d be happy to draw Popeye vs. Galactus, though (I once drew a quickie for someone featuring Superman vs. Atom Ant).

The scope of your most recent collaboration– The Danger’s Dozen– is huge. How did you approach the challenge of handling such a big cast of characters? Was there something in particular that drew you to the project?

The Danger’s Dozen is the most difficult project I’ve ever drawn, for basically three reasons. 1) There are a heck of a lot of characters and settings, 2) the stories are incredibly complex, and 3) the reference I’ve been provided is somewhat spotty due to the fact that earlier printed issues and discs were destroyed or lost some time ago. A First Salvo has been very good about providing me with as much reference as possible, but I wish I could read the early issues wherein a lot of their multiverse was first established.

Concerning the convention experience– do you enjoy meeting fans? Do you ever get the impression from these meetings that your work on Batman is as influential to fans and budding artists as the work of guys like Neal Adams and Jim Aparo was to you?

I always enjoy meeting fans. Just about everyone has always been very sweet and gracious.

Sometimes I do indeed hear that my art has had as big an impact on some folks as Adams’ and Aparo’s and others’ art had on me, and it’s very gratifying. It makes me feel that I belong, that I have a place – however small – in history.

What are you working on now?

This summer, after some health problems I experienced in the spring, I’ve been concentrating for over a month on regaining my health, and I’m now ready to start working again. First on my schedule are two separate eight-page stories, one for IDW’s title Munden’s Bar, and one for A First Salvo. Then I’ve got numerous commissions to finish, and after that, in September, I’ll be starting work on a new project that I can’t talk about quite yet.

Thanks so much for your time.

My pleasure.